43 replies to this topic

[mmack]

A couple weeks ago, there was an experiment with the spawns, one life per game. The idea was that it would solve the problem of people not being honest with the three lives rule.

However the one life rule created several problems, the first being it encouraged camping. The second is that people would be less likely to call there hits, especially early in a game. People want to get there moneys worth. This was also the problem with the three lives rule, people who play hard and do the objective get punished for actually playing and end up sitting out early on.

It seemed to me that the majority ended up hating the idea. So I figure, why not try the opposite, infinite lives. People are going to care less about dying, hit calling would be less of a problem, and it would also encourage less camping. Infinite lives is why some of the speedball only games at the end of the night are so fun, there's no worries.

So here's a poll.

EDIT: Alright, it's my fault for not making it clear. People are getting caught up on not being able to tell who wins/games are going to take too long. I was talking about infinite lives for objective based games(already have a time limit). The force on force game type can remain the same, with the three lives or whatever.

[Hippy]

the only problem with infinate lifes would be that trying to accomplish any sort of objective would become almost imposible

[German]

maybe we could cut it down to two lives?
The main problem with people not wanting to call their hits is because if they get out, they have to wait a LONG time to get back in for the next game, and the length of the games is caused less by the number of respawns, and more because the layout of the citadel results in some pretty slow gameplay.

[English]

Maybe a different way of respawning might help, instead of having to walk to a respawn what if we were tagged in by a team mate, give everyone one white strip of cloth and when you tag someone in you must tie it to their arm or pack, you can only be tagged in once by a team mate before heading back to respawn, and every player can only tag one player in, this would reduce the time spent walking, less chance of being hit in crossfire when returning to spawn, also i never liked the idea of being able to walk pass the opposing team then respawning behind them, as for not calling hits you will always have an issue with people not calling hits no matter what you do some people just have no honor, also you could time limit the games to say 20 mins, if objectives have not been reached by then call the match a draw, or just let them run until complete this would increase playing time also, reducing time spent in the staging area between games would help also.

[BATMAN]

I agree with mack x1000000 the 3 respawn limit is the worste thing about the citadel in my opinion this is a cqb facility and the thing that got me most excited about cqb was the fast paced aggressive style of playing, not only does the 3 lives rule discourage people and in a way and even punish people for playing hard it makes it extremely difficult to astablish teamwork when you have 3 dudes behind u that are affraid to move in because its their last life. CQB is arguably the most fun and easy to learn type of airsoft so let's make it better by encouraging people to play it the way its supposed to be played... hard! As for. Making it impossible to complete objectives I dissagree, its would make it harded but if people aren't looking for a challenge their hanging out at the wrong place.

[Shaggy]

The issue is there is no perfect fit. Honestly I have asked my staff to run some 'hardcore' nights where we use medic rules but players havent been interested. I am more than glad to bring them back or run 'hardcore' games during a given night. Likewise Pistol/Shotty games have gone by the wayside which I intend on bringing back.

[Nolan Rosa]

I feel like one is way to little of a number and would cause camping and even more people not calling their hits than there already is. Having infinite lives would make it hard to determine the winner and make it hard to establish and complete an objective. I think that you guys should either keep the number of three lives or increase the number of lives to four or five as this would still allow people to play aggressively but not over or underdo it. It would also keep the games to a reasonable time limit and allow for a decent amount of games to be played.

[Nolan Rosa]

I take back what I said about "making it hard to determine a winner." it doesn't matter who wins but what does matter is playing right, having fun and enjoying the game of airsoft. In addition to my last post I would like to add the fact that having infinite lives, and/or four or five lives would encourage more people to play aggressively and would elimate for the most part, worrying about people camping or sitting around doing nothing.

[German]

I like the idea of infinite respawns for objective type games, like domination. That would really encourage people to push HARD.

[mhealey]

i think the 3 lives as it is usually works out ok. i voted for it to stay the same, but i have no problem with trying something new. whichever one works out the best

[Damien Kain]

I have not been a fan of the 3 lives. Infinate lives are definately the way to go in my opinion. I know there are people who are saying that it'll be hard to accomplish objectives, but I seriously doubt that. How would a game of airsoft with infinate respawns be any different than a game of BF3? Plenty of objectives getting accomplished there and there isn't a respawn limit. I think so long as you keep the spawn points away from the objectives, you'd be golden. Also, I'm a huge fan of pistols, and pistol shotty games would rock. I'd also be down for more hardcore games with medic rules and whatnot, just not all the time.

[German]

and honestly I don't think medic rules would work out that wel. I don't like the idea of a bunch of dead people cluttering the hallways.

[English]

and honestly I don't think medic rules would work out that wel. I don't like the idea of a bunch of dead people cluttering the hallways.

not much different than trying to take a hallway with dead people walking towards you

[German]

the only difference being that in one scenario they're leaving, and in the other they're stuck there for good. but dead players getting in the way when they should be leaving is a rant for another time.

[BATMAN]

I think the "hardcore" game would be a good game type rather than a whole night thing. But I think we are getting off topic here this thread was talking about infinate respawns vs. 3 respawn. Mack and I will both be there this Tuesday we should give infinate respaws a try with a few game types and see how people like it... any objections?

[Bob Russell]

whats wrong with camping? the citadel is designed to make it rly hard to camp. I mean i dont camp personally unless im sitting on a objective or im providing a blocking force so to not alow hostiles past me. a proper application of nades and cover fire will hold a hostile in his cover so some one can advance either past it or up to it for the kill.

Now onto lives, Honesty is the foundation of the game. people wont call their hits because they suck and it is what it is. Take notice that the ones that dont, are not in the 'close circle' of players. we all know who they are. unlim lives will make a game way too long, 1 life is far to short. 3 is perfect, or as close as perfect can be in this sport.

Medic rules inside dont work right.

The idea of having more then 1 ref in play, say 3 or 4 that sit at the spawn areas and hold the dead players for 5 minutes or so then cut them loose at the end of a timer thusly giving the game a 'renforcement' feel. Alow 3 respawn cycles at a 5 minute interval. Refs with watches or coms to quordinate the spawn times. just an idea.

[German]

I'm honestly going to have to disagree... The citadel is actually pretty well suited to camping. Someone who knows how to use cover can keep a bead on an opening for minutes on end with only a few square inches of their face exposed to incoming fire... so basically anyone who wants to take down one of these campers (assuming the camper knows what he's doing) will have to pop around the corner and fire off a highly, highly accurate shot, and then duck back behing cover before said camper can return fire.... not impossible to do, but difficult enough. Grenades are easy, but also expensive, both in initial cost and with the price of green gas.

As for infinite lives making a game last too long, I don't think it would, at least in objective scenarios like domination. Time limits could be put in place to counteract any issues with long games. I agree with you in that three lives are perfect for team deathmatch style games.

I also really like what you said about the reinforcement style spawning... position a ref at each spawn and dead players have to wait there until the number of dead players is greater than or equal to 10-20% of that team's total player count, then they can all go back in at once. Its technically unlimited respawns, but the players have to wait a bit to get back in the fray.

[mmack]

Alright, it's my fault for not making it clear. People are getting caught up on not being able to tell who wins/games are going to take too long. I was talking about infinite lives for objective based games. The force on force game type can remain the same, with the three lives or whatever.


Objective based games that are already timed, like VIP and the bomb game will have the infinite lives. Spawns can change locations, i.e., Tape team is trying to get into the office to get the VIP but No-Tape is spawning there, so the spawn can change to stairs once the office is overrun(this is already the rule).

If the objective is not completed in the allotted amount of time then it should be clear who is the winner is.


As for the camping subject, yes, it's going to happen, and yes, it's a legitimate strategy sometimes. The camping that I was referring to, occurs in situations like when the attacking team is hanging around the spawn or refusing to attack. Infinite respawns will help give the push some people need to perform the objective. Maybe just incorporate infinite respawns to the attacking team?

[N.G.]

Unlimited respawns just doesn't seem like a good option to me, especially in objective based games. Lets say you have two teams: attacking & defending force. The attacking force is picking folks off by exterminating ALL (3) lives of troops on the defending force. This sends troop on the defending force downstairs to hydrate, reload and twiddle their thumbs... Now the attacking team has an advantage (DESERVINGLY FOR KICKING ASS!) because they end up having less resistance. As a result, the attacking force completes their objective. This scenario can go the other way if the defending team does the ass kicking, but it might not be realized if you incorporate unlimited respawns.

[English]

Unlimited respawns just doesn't seem like a good option to me, especially in objective based games. Lets say you have two teams: attacking & defending force. The attacking force is picking folks off by exterminating ALL (3) lives of troops on the defending force. This sends troop on the defending force downstairs to hydrate, reload and twiddle their thumbs... Now the attacking team has an advantage (DESERVINGLY FOR KICKING ASS!) because they end up having less resistance. As a result, the attacking force completes their objective. This scenario can go the other way if the defending team does the ass kicking, but it might not be realized if you incorporate unlimited respawns.

this is fine if the teams are evenly balanced, i have been on both sides of this having been of teams that were mostly younger kids who had no idea of tactics and went through thier lives pretty quick, and playing on teams that so overwhemled the other team that we had completed objectives in under 10mins. what you say makes sense but would unlimited respawns really make it hard to complete objectives, you still need control of the bomb, both flags or the VIP regardless of how many players on your team, i just think that giving people more lives will push players to not just camp but push forward and not worry about how many respawns they have left, hopefully making the game more fun for everyone.